In this episode, I talk with documentarian Abby Epstein about her creative journey becoming a theater and film director and women’s health advocate. A co-creator of the landmark film, The Business of Being Born, Abby tells honest women’s stories — from periods to menopause and everything in between. She shares her experiences in creating compelling documentaries, the importance of creative partnerships, and the challenges faced when your creativity rocks society's boat. Abby also talks about her new project, Midlife Monologues, which explores the narratives surrounding women in midlife and is sure to start another movement. Both curious and fearless, Abby takes on the status quo and her work is essential to making sure women’s stories are truthfully told.
In this episode, I talk with documentarian Abby Epstein about her creative journey becoming a theater and film director and women’s health advocate. A co-creator of the landmark film, The Business of Being Born, Abby tells honest women’s stories — from periods to menopause and everything in between. She shares her experiences in creating compelling documentaries, the importance of creative partnerships, and the challenges faced when your creativity rocks society's boat. Abby also talks about her new project, Midlife Monologues, which explores the narratives surrounding women in midlife and is sure to start another movement. Both curious and fearless, Abby takes on the status quo and her work is essential to making sure women’s stories are truthfully told.
Takeaways:
Art has a profound ripple effect on society and individual lives
Resources:
You can find ECHO FINCH and Adam and the Flood new album Chasing Gods everywhere you stream music but they would love if you try bandcamp too https://echofinch.bandcamp.com/album/chasing-gods-2
Abby
My name is Abby Epstein. I'm a filmmaker and theater director and a women's health advocate. And this is No Time to Be Timid.
Tricia
Hey there, I'm Tricia Rose Burt. And in this podcast, we talk to artists who show us how to find the courage to take risks, step out of our comfort zones and use our creativity to make our work and change our world. Pay close attention because this is no time to be timid.
Hey there and welcome to the show. So as a woman raised in the South, I was discouraged to talk about several topics, money, politics, and anything, and I mean anything to do with female bodily functions. Thankfully, my guest Abby Epstein, has made her career talking about issues that would have unhinged my mother and she’s helped millions of women in the process. After starting a theater company in Chicago, she moved to New York, served as associate director of RENT on Broadway and Director of RENT in Spain and Mexico. Her next step was director of the The Vagina Monologues — its national tour, off Broadway and also in Toronto and Mexico City. That experience launched her into the role of film director and women’s health advocate, where along with Ricki Lake, she created the landmark film The Business of Being Born. She followed that success with the films Weed The People and The Business of Birth Control and now she’s back to theater, helping to launch the Midlife Monologues, which will no doubt become another movement.
Abby tells honest women's stories from periods to menopause and everything in between. And her creative journey is filled with highs and lows. In our conversation, we talk about how she forges her courage along the way and keeps herself open to other creative possibilities. Some takeaways from our visit: If there's a fork in the road, take the path where you can learn something new; creative partnerships are key to making your best work; if you're challenging the status quo, be prepared for backlash; and don't underestimate the power of your creative work to make a difference. Abby inspires us all to be fearless no matter where we are in life. I'm so glad you're joining us.
Tricia
Hey, Abby, thank you so much for joining the show.
Abby
My pleasure.
Tricia
So, okay, so I have to tell you that I did a story on the Moth stage where I am literally saying how I was raised by women who could not say the words period or pregnant. And that the only way I found out about what was happening with my body was those, the movies we saw in Girl Scouts, you know?
And that I was pretty sure the only reason why I saw the movies is because my troop leader was from Wisconsin. If you listen to your friend and mine, Kim Williams Paisley, her episode, she's talking about how her mother could not talk about her having her period and her father was screaming through the bathroom door about how she should put a Tampax in. So I want to know what environment were you raised in where you can so openly talk about, I mean, you've worked on The Vagina Monologues, you've worked on The Business of Being Born, you've worked on The Business of Birth Bontrol, like, you're a women's health advocate. Were you talking about this comfortably with your mother growing up? How'd you get to do this so fluently?
Abby
No, I was not talking about this fluently with my mother at all. I don't think from what Kimberly shared as her experience, I don't think, my mother wasn't as uncomfortable or closed off. I remember my mother did say that, you know, her mother had kind of thrown a book at her and that was all she got. I think she, you know, made a little more effort. But no, I would not say I grew up in this open household where people were like openly talking about women's reproductive features. No. I would say that pretty kind of typical raised by boomers who were children of immigrants and was definitely like minimal amount of information required.
Tricia
Whatever you need.
Abby
Minimal.
Tricia
Absolutely. Where did you grow up? Did you grow up in Chicago?
Abby
No, I grew up also like Kim very close by in Westchester in New York. So a little bit in New York City when I was younger and then in Westchester.
Tricia
Okay, so it isn't just a Southern experience. It is something that goes across the board when it comes to talking about things that matter and that we should know about, but it takes a while to get there. You started your own theater company in Chicago. You were there for what? Over a decade and then moved to New York because of Rent and then you moved into The Vagina Monologues. You have an idea to do a film about documenting the global impact that it's making. You have a filmmaker that's selected to do it. They can't do it. Eve Ensler looks at you and says, you do it. Since this show is called No Time to Be Timid, I want to ask you, what did that feel like? Because while you had directed theater, you had never directed a film before. And so what did that feel like?
Abby
It’s true and I think when I proposed the idea of making the documentary to Eve Ensler at that time, it was really honestly because I knew this was a story that needed to be told and we had been traveling the world together seeing all of these incredible productions and I had no inkling you know that I would ever be qualified enough or knew what I was doing to actually like direct this movie.
And I had a little bit of experience when I was out in LA, like, you know, of shadowing on some TV sets, but those were like single camera comedies. I mean, it was very, very different. And honestly, the weirdest thing was at that same time, I was working on the Vagina Monologues. And I remember my agent at the time had called me and said, you know, these producers, they just saw your production of Rent in Mexico City, and they want you to take over Mamma Mia. So they want you to be like the global director and, you know, sort of take Mamma Mia like all over the world and be the resident director. And so that had happened. And then this documentary filmmaker dropped out of the V-Day movie. And it was this like real fork in the road for me.
You know, because I thought, wow, okay. And I honestly, it was not a difficult decision at all, Tricia. It was just like, I'm going to go the road less traveled. I'm going to go down the fork that feels like new and scary and risky. And I'll never forget my agent, he just said, do you understand how much money this could be over the long haul? Like he just was sort of shocked, you know, that I was turning my nose, but I felt that at that moment in time, I just felt like creatively, I knew how to take a Broadway show and export it. You know, I knew how to do that and I was good at it. And I really felt like this other opportunity, honestly, it just felt so compelling. Like, wait a minute, I get to travel to 14 countries and document violence against women. And I felt like, my God, I'm gonna get like an MFA in women's studies and filmmaking for free. Or I'm gonna get paid to get an MFA in women's studies and filmmaking. And I don't know, I just thought, like, I'll figure it out, it's storytelling. I can't say the process was smooth.
Tricia
Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, you'd never done it before, so.
Abby
Never done it before, trial by fire. There was definitely a lot of mistakes, a lot of drama, you know, but at the end of the day, like three years later, there we were. I was standing next to Jane Fonda and Sally Field at the Sundance Film Festival, you know, premiering this documentary. Yeah. And it was, you know, I can't say it turned out to be like the most incredible documentary ever made. I mean, I'm sure I would look back on it now and think there was a lot of sophomoric mistakes, but I think ultimately the heart was there, right? Which is that I had this passion to tell this story. Really, honestly, and I think, you don't know how those experiences are gonna set you up, right, for the next thing. And that's sort of what happened is because after we premiered that film, I connected with my friend, Ricki Lake, who I had met directing her in the Vagina Monologues. And Ricki said, I wanna do a project about childbirth and I don't know if it's a book or a movie. And I was like, well, I now know how to make a documentary film. So tell me about this. And I had that one experience under my belt, which really led me into making The Business of Being Born with Ricki, which I never would have been able to execute at the level. that we did, you know, had I not had that first rough start, you know.
Tricia
First of all, it's just such a fabulous story to say there was a fork in the road and one had a bunch of money and one had the curiosity and the passion and the thing that was going to set you up. Very brave to do that. So, but what was one of the takeaways of the biggest thing you learned in that first trial by fire experience?
Abby
There's only so much you could shoot. I mean, we definitely way overshot, you know, and women like to talk and women like to tell stories. And I was very generous with, you know, putting the camera on everybody and not kind of understanding how little was going to be able to fit into an 85 minute movie. But I think, you know, from a work perspective, I think I learned that you could, I think, really do anything if you have a team of people that you trust. And on that movie, I did not have that because I was stepping into something very last minute. And so the other people who'd been hired, the production company, the producer, the line producer, the camera operators, you know, I think they kind of saw me as like an easy target because I wouldn't know what's acceptable or not acceptable. So I think that ultimately, you know, there were people who took advantage of that situation to maybe like line their pockets a bit, you know. People always tend to do that, but that, I think that was like the biggest lesson is that it was almost like, I felt like at the end of the day, we were able to kind of make a pretty good movie in spite of these other people who weren't doing their jobs all that well. And that's, I think, such a big lesson. It's just whoever you're going to go into a creative project with, it is just so important that everybody has each other's backs, you know?
Tricia
Yeah. Well, you've had this creative partnership with Ricki for a long time now. And I was going to ask you about the importance of a creative partnership, because that is a rarity to have a partnership for that long and to be able to do the things that you all have done. Talk about how that works for you and the benefits of having that kind of partnership.
Abby
Yeah, you know, and I would say for Ricki and I, it is rare, it is very, very rare to have that kind of partnership. And I think as two women who are also, you know, very, very, very close friends, it's incredibly hard. And I have to say, it's like over 20 years now, you know, we really have never ever had any kind of falling out over anything. I think we both know each other's strengths and weaknesses. We know what the other does well. She is very, very good at being the public face, representing projects in the media and doing media and going on television to promote and talk about projects and putting herself out there in that way. And I am much better at doing more of the heavy lifting behind the scenes. And we just have a way of working together where it's, you know, we're both very, very low ego, you know, around most of it. And, you know, she's like, what do need me to do? Sometimes the things we have to do, like raising money and stuff like that it’s not fun. You know, I mean, a lot of that is not fun. It's a lot of work. We have a real spirit around us of like making it fun and adventurous, you know, and I think for better or for worse, cause I can't say we, you know, made money making these documentaries. But we, I know, I think we both do have sort of an inner guide, like an inner intuitiveness where we can put sort of like passion before logic and just be like, yes, yes, yes, you know, we have to do this.
Tricia
Well, I have created a manifesto, the No Time to Be Timid manifesto. And one of the things that is in it is logic can work against you. For example, the choice you made between doing Mamma Mia and doing, you know, the logical thing would have been, but that wasn't the thing that was going to work. That didn't make any sense for you. So, you're not making a ton of money on these documentaries, but you have started, you know, a movement or two. Another one of the manifesto principles is creativity is not a frivolous pursuit. Because so often, creativity feels like the lesser skill, you know, there's logic matters and, know, analysis, all that stuff. But it is the creative efforts that are usually the sparks for the things that change the world, basically. How does it feel when you look at an impact of a film like The Business of Being Born and no one knew what a doula was before that? Does that balance out the fact that you aren't driving around in a snazzy car because you made that movie? And how does that inform the choices that you make moving forward?
Abby
With The Business of Being Born, it's extremely hard to take in the impact of that movie. And I don't know that we'll ever fully be able to actually have any kind of like metric to see the impact, which is a shame. Even just now, a couple of weeks ago on Mother's Day, we did a post on social media and boom, boom, boom, there are all the DMs, you know, saying, this movie changed my life. It changed my life. It changed my life over and over and over. Either somebody who became a birth worker because of the movie or their birth took a certain direction because of the movie and thus their life was changed by that. And we would just be sitting on an airplane and the flight attendant would come over, kneel down next to us, and before she could even start talking, she would start crying. And we would just be like, we know the film. That would happen like over and over and over and over. And it's super interesting because I think what I've learned working on Vagina Monologues and then working on Business of Being Born is that sadly, I would say a lot of times the sort of creative contributions by women tend to be really undervalued, really overlooked. I would say maybe like, 10 years ago, there's a film critic named Owen Gleiberman, and he wrote a blog post in Entertainment Weekly. And it was one of the only like critical pieces that actually captured this. And he said, this is one of the few documentaries that deserves to be called revolutionary. And it didn't win any awards and it didn't get on the Oscar shortlist. And it's not, you know, sung about, but it's this underground manifesto that has changed, you know, more lives than any movie. And he said, you don't look at An Inconvenient Truth and maybe the impact lasts, what, six months, a year. You know, people forget An Inconvenient Truth. They move on to the next climate or whatever, but this movie is still, you know, being passed around to expectant parents. And so it was such a rewarding little piece that he wrote because you will oftentimes feel that just mainstream media and press, they couldn't be bothered with talking about something as trivial as childbirth.
Tricia
Very trivial.
Abby
I think we are still constantly working to keep the movie out there, keep the movie accessible.
You know, Netflix owned it for 15 years, but at some point just dropped it off their streamer. Why? No idea. People started writing to us. We can't find the movie anymore. You know, like we don't own it. You know, I mean, we've since gotten the rights back.
Tricia
Good, okay, yeah. Even still, mean, on a much smaller scale, I told a story for The Moth years ago called How to Draw a Nekkid Man. And it was all about my journey from being a corporate executive to becoming an artist, right? And I will still get emails from people that will, and that was in 2011. I had one woman, she was from Australia saying I had a soul crushing government job and now I became a birth photographer after I, you know, so you just have all of us as artists have no idea the ripple effect of the work we do when we put it, we just don't know. We hope people are seeing it. They probably are. We may never know, but they're the seeds that get planted all along the way that on some level has to just, we just have to trust that and keep making more stuff.
So I was raised never to draw attention to myself. And I was, you know, also supposed to be a very good girl. mean, I can remember I was walking in some march. It was after the Parkland shooting. I was on the phone with my mother and I was like, I have to go. I'm going to go march at the Capitol. And she was like, oh my God, just be good and mind your manners. I mean, you know, really, I was 57. It just undid her the idea of me being out there in any way. So you've gotten pushback about The Business of Being Born, about The Business of Birth Control. You've gotten pushback from people. I mean, are you a people pleaser? And did it upset you when people were going, I don't like this film and you're doing the wrong thing? Like there are people out there going, I'd like to say this, but I'm afraid people will be mad at me. How does that factor into your choice and does it? And did you know you were gonna get the backlash that you got?
Abby
It's a really great question, Tricia. And I do think that when I was editing The Business of Being Born, which sort of fell at the same time as my first child was born, I absolutely felt that. Especially around the medical establishment, because I think that we are all sort of raised with that like white coat syndrome. Like you really don't push back against doctors because they are like God-like in their knowledge and you don't question your doctor and you don't question these big, powerful medical agencies. So it was feeling scary. And I felt like when we started cutting The Business of Being Born, the idea was like, we're gonna show these alternatives, but we're not gonna be Michael Moore about it. We're not gonna be like in your face and blah, blah, blah. Then I started coming into the editing room and my editor, Madeleine Gavin, who has since gone on and now is like a brilliant director in her own right, brilliant editor. But she was editing these pieces that were pretty controversial. Like they were punching back. I do remember the first couple times I saw those clips that she cut together, I did kind of go, oh my God, we're gonna put this out here? Like we're gonna get in so much trouble.
But then it was sort of like, because she is so smart and such a good editor, and she was making a compelling argument, you know, she wasn't just trying to be provocative. She was building a compelling argument, right? Which is what good editors do, documentary editors. I just kind of got comfortable with it, you know, little by little by little. And then the first private screening we did, we did a sneak preview screening in New York for friends and family. And I remember Eve Ensler came and she kind of took me aside in the lobby after and she said, I'm gonna tell you something right now. She said, those doctors are gonna come after you and they are not gonna say the word. Cause I don't know how much cursing you like on your podcast, but she was like, they are mother effers. And you know, their lobbies are very tough. the way, and it hit me for the first time after that preview screening. Like, I think that Ricki and I were blessed just to be so ignorant. And we just thought we were making a movie to empower women. We were not making a movie because we were angry at doctors or had a bone to pick with the medical system. Some people do. Some people make documentaries because they've been wronged and they're angry or that was not our agenda.
So for us, it was shocking in the beginning. And I will say it took 10 years for the times to catch up with us, right? So it took 10 years for the wheel to turn a bit. And then suddenly hospitals were like, oh, come tour our new birthing center and you know. Come be like, come let us vet you. And suddenly Ricki's getting awards like Mother of the Year, this hospital, you know, and it's like, it was scary. It was not pretty in the beginning. It really wasn't pretty. We were, you know, sometimes unexpectedly attacked on talk shows and television interviews. You know, there was something about this home birth thing and the fact that Ricki had her baby at home that was so threatening.
Abby
It's not like today where any celebrity could go on Good Morning America and talk about their home birth. It wasn't like that. It was like people had to immediately attack her and say, well, you we just have to say that, you know, this is frowned upon by the AMA and, know, you put your baby's life in danger, whatever, all the things that their advertisers, you know, told them to say. It was tough.
Tricia
Well, you know what, fair play to you for weathering it. And you weather it long enough and you get to the other side of it, you know, and it's like, okay, and people catch up with you. You know, it was great that you were ignorant that that would happen because you may have made different choices if you knew it was coming. Even for me, do I have, you know, there's been, I mean, I've talked about my depression on stage. I've talked about different things on stage. It's like, if I say this out loud, what's going to happen there? You know, and what normally happens is at the very least starts conversation. And I think that's really what we all want to do is just have conversation that gets started.
Tricia
We'll get back to the second half of our conversation in a moment. But right now, I want to tell you about our sponsor, Interabang Books, a Dallas-based independent bookstore, which was named one of the country's top five bookstores by Publishers Weekly. They have a fabulous curated online collection, and it's just as easy to shop with them as it is with Amazon. Who doesn't want to support an independent bookstore? Please show them some love and check them out at interabangbooks.com.
That's Interabang, I-N-T-E-R-A-B-A-N-G, Books.com.
Tricia
You're now a very natural extension of your work, because I just love this arc that you've got around women and the work that you're doing. But you're now working on this new project called Midlife Monologues. And what is also interesting is, you started in theater, all this time in film, back to theater. Tell me about what the project is, and then we'll ask you some more specific questions around what it feels like to be navigating this space now. So tell us about the project.
Abby
I was on a panel in LA last week and it sort of occurred to me during the panel that my entry into this sort of midlife movement is very similar to my entry into the childbirth movement. You know, where I was just really unaware. When Ricki was telling me about midwives and home births, I'd never been pregnant. And I had a totally antiquated idea of childbirth, you know, at that time.
I just thought it was like a medical procedure that you went in and did. I didn't understand anything about like how it intersects with feminism or that there was a spiritual journey around it, like none of that. And it was kind of the same thing here where, my midlife has not been disruptive in a physical way where a lot of women, you know, have a lot of hormonal shifts and they have hot flashes and mood issues and you know, it can be a huge disruption for a lot of women, like falling off a cliff hormonally.
Tricia
You haven't had that?
Abby
I haven’t had that, you when I left my partner, I left my, you know, father of my children at 44. That was my midlife moment. I have got to change something, right? Like this is not working. I don't want to raise kids in this family the way it is. I need to get out of this, right? That was the on-ramp, right? And then, you know, 50 was like amazing for me. It felt very like second spring, but I was approached by this amazing actress, Constance Zimmer, who did have the falling off the cliff experience and had this idea about creating some kind of a narrative, a play, a Vagina Monologues inspired play. So through a mutual friend, we were connected.
And we started developing this midlife monologues idea together and holding circles and story shares and gathering stories for the piece. And was so it was really like similar to the situation with Ricki where with Constance, who's my partner in this, it's like, she really opened the door to me. And I was then able to sit in those circles and story shares and feel what was happening and the disconnect. I knew about the disconnect between women's reproductive arcs and the medical system. That I knew. But I didn't know in the menopause space, it's very complicated. And I actually am just finishing my certification to be a midlife and menopause coach. And the reason I did that,
Tricia
Oh, wow!
Abby
Yeah, I did a six month, very intensive, certification program and I did it not necessarily because I, I don't know if I'm going to open a practice at the end of it, but I wanted to understand the neuroscience, the hormonal science, all the noise out there, you know, all the people selling this and selling that – I wanted to understand. So now it's like I have this very deeply nuanced picture of all the different paths that one can take at midlife and such a deep understanding of the physical underpinnings, but also now the sort of emotional and spiritual, I would say transformations that happen. So it was sort of this beautiful club that I didn't know I wanted to be a part of, right?
Tricia
Oh, yeah.
Abby
It was very much like motherhood, you know, when I started The Business of Being Born I was not really interested in being pregnant or being a mom, you know, one day. And then it just seemed to happen during the filming of that movie. So it's very similar. And so we have been writing, we're connected with a Broadway producer who's helping us shepherd this along. And then since we started, we've put together this creative community behind the project, which is about 75 actresses, writers, showrunners, directors. We have some medical professionals, some entrepreneurs, you know, really women from all walks of life behind this. And now we're realizing it's so much bigger than this play. So now we've joined forces with the documentary that was in the works called Her Second Act. And so we've, we've jumped onto that. So now we've got actually a documentary, a play, and kind of a larger community-based movement that we're building through the storytelling. And we're trying to figure out, you know, how, what that looks like in the world, what shape that takes. It's been such a nourishing artistic journey because it's, you know, similar to The Business of Being Born. It's like I'm in the same stage of life.
Tricia
Yeah. For me, mean, again, I'm 64 and I can remember I was 48. And again, as I mentioned earlier, was raised never to draw attention to myself. And I was like, you know, somebody's got to draw attention to themselves. It really might as well be me. So that's when I started performing. You know, was like there was something in me that was like, what? I don't need to really wait around for permission anymore. I think we just need to get this done. And I didn't have children. And so spent most of my 40s with people saying, when are you going to have children? And so when, I mean, I was running like a horse to the barn for 50. Like, can we just get this over with, please? Because, do you remember More magazine? Do you remember More magazine?
Abby
Yeah, of course.
Tricia
There was a, they had a, they had an article that was Maverick Mommies, Women Having Children Over 50. I was like, someone make this stop. Please make it stop. I mean, I really feel for me, my most creative time has been in my 50s. And then I started this podcast at 62. With the name No Time to be Timid purposefully. You know, this is time, people. This is time. I mean, it's so it's very exciting. That's why when was, Kim was telling me about the project and I was, you know, just reading at every actress on the Instagram and reading as much as I could about it. It's like, heck yeah. For me, it's been an incredibly important liberating time. I know there's others like me with children, without children, whatever, who are like, whoo, we are just past the part of having to give a shit. You know, I just, let's just.
Abby
It's so freeing.
Tricia
It's wildly freeing. It's wildly freeing. And it comes with the lever of gravitas too. I mean, not to be bossy, but to be able to step into our authority, because I'm not just asking for permission anymore. I'm just really not.
Abby
One of the books that I love that we read for research among a million things is Dr. Louann Brizendine's book. She had written a book when I was doing The Business of Being Born called The Female Brain, which was a very popular book at the time. And now her latest book is called The Upgrade. That is what it's about. You have to read it, Tricia. It's so brilliant. But she really talks about the neuroscience of why, like why, you know, at 48, you could suddenly click into this, you know, now or never thing, because there's neuroscience behind it. There's actual rewiring of the brain.
Tricia
Yeah, I'd really like to read that.
Abby
You’d love it.
Tricia
What I find so fascinating about you, Abby, is the level of research that you are doing for each of your projects and how much you immerse yourself. It's what we have to do. I mean, artists on some level end up being scholars in areas because if you want to do it well, if you want to do it well, you read as much as you can so that you have the context of it. You know, and so I've just, it's noticeable, your curiosity and the intellect that you're bringing to these projects. I passion matters. And when it's paired, you know, with curiosity and intellect, it makes it that much more powerful. You know, I think that's where your work has been so powerful. Now I'm going to ask you a question that I ask all of my guests, which is, what do you need courage for now?
Abby
That's such a good question. You know, especially with this new project with The Midlife Monologues movement, I think I need courage, you know, for us to think much bigger than I've been thinking in the past. Again, I can be very tenacious. Like if I need to raise money for a film I believe in, I can make a cold call and get $100,000 out of a company. I've done it before. But it stays kind of small because then it's sort of like, okay, you make the movie, that movie comes out, some people see it. But we're talking about like what we wanna do here is a real groundswell, like a real cultural shift in how people think about the narrative of aging, the narrative of midlife, and that's big. That's really, really big. And so I think, you know, what I need the courage for is not to ask for $100,000, to ask for the millions of dollars and say, you know, we're building something here, big, and it's gonna have media, community, it's gonna bring women together. It's gonna tell the kind of stories that we are not hearing and not seeing reflected right now, you know, in TV and film. So I need the courage, I think, to step up and own this in a bigger way, I think, like from a business perspective, in addition to the creative, to take up the space.
Tricia
Taking up the space, It used to be hard for me and it's getting a whole lot easier. A whole lot easier. Abby, I'm just so tickled you were on the show. Thank you so much for coming. You have to keep us posted on everything that's going on and we'll put all the information for your projects in the show notes. Yeah, thank you so much for dropping by.
Abby
You're so welcome, Tricia. It's a pleasure. Pleasure to talk to you. I love this topic.
Tricia
Thanks, thanks.
Tricia
Abby’s encouraging me to think and dream big and she gave me a few other things to think about. What's motivating you these days? Financial security or creative curiosity? There's no judgment in that question. Sometimes there can be different seasons where one is more important than the other. Consider partnering with someone who can help you bring your dreams to life and don't be afraid to put your work out there because it might challenge the status quo. Your voice is needed. You can follow Abby on Instagram @abbyepsteinxoxo, learn more about her at www.thebusinessof.life and check out her newest project, The Midlife Monologues, on Instagram @midlifemonologues. Here on the home front, you can watch my story, How to Act Like a Lady on my website or on YouTube or listen to it at themoth.org. And my producer Adam Arnone, who releases music under Adam and the Flood just released a new album on June 20th called Chasing Gods. You can find it anywhere you listen to music. Check it out.
Tricia
Thanks for joining us. If you have any questions, feel free to reach out to us at podcast@triciaroseburt.com. And if you like what you hear, please review our podcast, subscribe to the show, and spread the word! It really helps build our audience. For more updates, you can follow me on instagram and LinkedIn @triciaroseburt. And if you’d like to be added to my mailing list, please go to my website triciaroseburt.com. And remember, this is no time to be timid.
No Time to Be Timid is written and produced by me, Tricia Rose Burt. Our episodes are produced and scored by Adam Arnone of Echo Finch. And our executive producers are Amy Grant, Nancy Perot, and Sage Wheeler. I'd also like to thank contributors to my Fractured Atlas Fiscal Sponsorship, which helps make this podcast happen. No Time to Be Timid is a presentation of I Will Be Good Productions.