Vince Gill is a music icon, winning armloads of awards over his 50-year musical career, including 22 Grammys, 8 Academy of Country Music Awards, and 18 CMA awards. He’s collaborated with every possible country music great like Dolly Parton and Reba McEntire, but also music legends in other genres like Sting and Barbra Streisand. Along with his unforgettable tenor voice, Vince is an extraordinary guitar player, and has shared the stage with guitar legends like Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck, B. B. King, and Carlos Santana. He’s been playing with his good pal Joe Walsh and the Eagles for the past nine years, stepping in for the late Glenn Frey. But I asked Vince to be on the show because he continues to make courageous choices not only for his career but also for all of us, using his music to make the world a better place. At 68, Vince believes he’s making the best music of his career. No matter where you are in your artistic journey, you will leave this conversation inspired.
Vince Gill is a music icon, winning armloads of awards over his 50-year musical career, including 22 Grammys, 8 Academy of Country Music Awards, and 18 CMA awards. He’s collaborated with every possible country music great like Dolly Parton and Reba McEntire, but also music legends in other genres like Sting and Barbra Streisand. Along with his unforgettable tenor voice, Vince is an extraordinary guitar player, and has shared the stage with guitar legends like Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck, B. B. King, and Carlos Santana. He’s been playing with his good pal Joe Walsh and the Eagles for the past nine years, stepping in for the late Glenn Frey. But I asked Vince to be on the show because he continues to make courageous choices not only for his career but also for all of us, using his music to make the world a better place.
At 68, Vince believes he’s making the best music of his career. No matter where you are in your artistic journey, you will leave this conversation inspired.
Takeaways:
Resources
Learn more about Vince and check out his tour schedule here.
Follow him on instagram @vincegillofficial.
Watch Vince perform:
See his vintage guitar collection here.
Find out more about Vince's friend Keb' Mo', an award-winning blues musician.
Learn more about The Sphere and go see Vince play with the Eagles!
And listen to Amy and Vince’s daughter Corrina sing her song Too Much.
Vince
Hey everybody, I'm Vince Gill and this is No Time to Be Timid.
Tricia
Hey there, I'm Tricia Rose Burt, and in this podcast, we talk to artists who show us how to find the courage to take risks, step out of our comfort zones, and use our creativity to make our work and change our world. Pay close attention, because this is no time to be timid.
Hey there and welcome to the show. So we are all in for a serious treat. My guest this episode is the award-winning singer-songwriter, Vince Gill. And when I say award-winning, I mean 22 Grammy Awards. He won Grammys every year from 1990 to 1999, and his latest win was in 2021. He's won eight Academy of Country Music Awards and 18 CMA Awards. No other artist has won the CMA Male Vocalist Award in five consecutive years, and he's the only songwriter to win Song of the Year four times. One of those songs is Go Rest High on that Mountain.
(Clip from Go Rest High on the Mountain)
What you just heard is from the YouTube clip of Vince playing that song at George Jones' funeral. It's been viewed 19 million times and I'm one million of those views. Vince is a member of the Grand Ole Opry, was inducted into the Country Music Hall of Fame in 2007, and his knowledge of country music is so extensive, he was featured in nearly every segment of Ken Burns' documentary on country music.
Along with his unforgettable tenor voice, Vince is an extraordinary guitar player and has shared the stage with guitar greats like Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck, B.B. King, and Carlos Santana. He's been playing with his good pal Joe Walsh and the Eagles for the past nine years, stepping in for the late Glenn Frey. His vintage guitar collection is out of this world. And sure, he's collaborated with every possible country music great like Dolly Parton and Reba McEntire. But think of music legends in other genres like Sting or Barbra Streisand, and Vince has collaborated with them too.
So Vince is basically a music icon, but he's on the show because he continues to make courageous choices, not only for his career, but also for all of us, using his music to make the world a better place. He's one of the nicest, most generous people you'll ever meet. Lucky for me, I met Vince for the first time back in 2012 when his wife Amy Grant and I reconnected after I performed my one woman show at a Vanderbilt University reunion. Amy asked me to perform my show at their home two weeks later. And during rehearsal, I realized I needed somebody to run the sound for the show, which meant occasionally pushing a button and correctly adjusting the volume. Vince volunteered for the task. As I sat surrounded by Grammy awards, it occurred to me this was probably not the best use of his skill sets but he was game and I was grateful.
Since I've gotten to know Vince as a friend, I forget sometimes that he's the icon that he is. But I was reminded last week when I saw him perform in Boston. I sat in the audience for more than three hours, gobsmacked, in awe of the talent this man possesses. In our conversation, Vince reflects on his 50-year journey in music and talks about the choices that shaped his career. And he shared some insights:
At 68, Vince believes he's making the best music of his career. No matter where you are in your artistic journey, you will leave this conversation inspired.
Tricia
Hey Vince, thank you so much for letting me come to your studio.
Vince
Yes, ma'am.
Tricia
So you left home 50 years ago.
Vince
That’s what they tell me. I don't remember it.
Tricia
Well, from what they say, you left home 50 years ago. I need to know what that looked like. Like, did you get your high school diploma on a Friday and then get in a car on a Saturday?
Vince
Well, it wasn't quite like that. It was close to that. But yeah, I got out of high school and I didn't really have a plan. I knew I wasn't going to go to college.
Tricia
Why did you know that?
Vince
Because I didn't want to. They couldn't teach me anything about hillbilly singing and guitar playing, so I just didn't see the need to go. I never applied to a school, never even looked into it. Because I spent so much time of my high school years playing out, playing in clubs, playing in a couple of different bands, making records and doing all that stuff.
Tricia
When was the first time you got on a stage?
Vince
I don't remember. I think it was grade school, second grade maybe.
Tricia
And what were you playing?
Vince
The guitar. And I sang The House of the Rising Sun.
Tricia
No way.
Vince
Yeah. So I didn't even know what it was about. It's all about a house of ill repute. And I'm up there singing. I'm sure the teachers were just rolling their eyes going, oh my god.
Tricia
So did you know, like did you look in the mirror at age 10 and go, I want to be a musician? Like did you always know that was your identity? Did you ever think maybe I'll do something else or was it just in you right from the start?
Vince
Well, I was a good athlete, you know, I was a decent athlete, played sports well and I was a decent golfer. And I had aspirations -- every kid dreams of playing Major League Baseball or something like that, you know, but it was sports and music for me, you know, just hands down. And I had given so much of my time to music by the time I got into high school and was, like I said, playing out that I knew that I knew what I wanted to do. And it didn't matter to me, I don't think I ever really thought about it in terms of being successful. I only thought about it in terms of just doing it. They asked my mom years later after I'd had a pretty good amount of success, and they were talking to her and they said, did it bother you that your son didn't take a more traditional route and go get a good job, get an education, da da da? And she kind of went, no, it didn't bother me. It didn't bother me at all. She said, I didn't care anything about having a rich kid. I sure cared about having a happy kid. That music made him happy.
Tricia
Yeah, that's fantastic.
Vince
And so I never, you know, I didn't get grief from my folks. Like, what are you doing? You're wasting your time messing around with that music thing. And they both liked music. So it was, I think they enjoyed it too.
Tricia
So what about your friends? I mean, were they taking a more conventional path? Did they look at you like...
Vince
Yeah, they thought I was nuts, but you know, and maybe I was but you know, and I left home and so the majority of my buddies growing up with kind of lost touch with for the most part because I left and I traveled and I've been gone ever since.
Tricia
I know that feeling. Okay, so instead of going through all of your repertoire of everything you've done, I kind of want to focus on those moments where you had to step into some real courage, because this is what this show is about. So you had this big milestone when Mark Knopfler asked you to go join him on a world tour with Dire Straits and I was watching Ken Burns, Country Music. I'm going to tell you what your quote was and then I'm going to ask you a question about it.
Vince
See if it was true or if I was lying.
Tricia
I don't know if you were lying. You might've been lying,
Vince
Pretty good chance. My lips are moving, I might be lying.
Tricia
You're a questionable character. Anyway, it said, I was struggling to pay the house note at the time and it would have cured everything financially. It would have been a great experience.
The musician in me wanted to do that so badly because I love the way he plays and sings, but I told myself, if you're not going to believe in you, who else is? I'm going to have to say no. I don't want to say no, but I have to try it. I think I have something to offer this world of country music. So I want to ask you a question. You said the musician in me wanted to do it. Who overrode it? What part of you overrode the musician and said, we're going in this other direction?
Vince
Well, I think they're all the same guy.
Tricia
That's what I was, yeah, that's what I'm wondering.
Vince
It was that simple. What it would have done to me by taking that job would have been admitting failure. Because the years prior I struggled and I couldn't get a hit and I couldn't get on radio and all those kinds of things. The sure thing is not necessarily the right thing. I just said I got to follow my heart because my ears tell me. My ears aren't lying to me. I can sing as good as anybody in this business, you know? And these songs are good. I keep, you know, I just gotta, I want to keep after it. I just think my gut tells me I belong.
Tricia
And so that's always a question that I have sometimes. Is it vision or is it ego? Right? You know, that tension?
Vince
Yeah, I wouldn't call it ego because I don't know that I have a whole lot of ego when it comes to this thing I do. .
Tricia
No, you don't.
Vince
I'm very open about what I can and can't do. And I don't give a rip who gets the credit or who gets to be in the spotlight or all those kinds of things. So with that, I know it's just – I'm just trying to make the best decision I can. heard Keb Mo say one time, somebody asked him, said, when did it finally break for you? When did it kind of blow up? And he said, when I didn't have a backup plan. And it was kind of neat to hear that many years down the road. I didn't mind. It was not frustrating to not have success. That's the real odd thing to kind of say out loud, but I was a part of the community whether I had success or not. People asked me to come and sing and play on their records, to come and be in their bands and play on the road. I could have done fine. I would not have killed it. I wouldn't have a nice house in a nice neighborhood and all that, but I was respected and I played with great people and the people that were the best of the best liked what I did. So that was success. I didn't always equate success with hit records and the charts and record sales. Those kinds of things were not what were going to define me.
Tricia
I had a creative coach ask me, Tricia, what's more important to you, fame or the respect of your peers? And I went, respect of my peers.
Vince
Absolutely.
Tricia
Every time.
Vince
Absolutely. Yeah, I think there's a lot of people out there that play in stadiums, but they don't have the respect of their peers and that kills them and eats them alive.
Tricia
Yeah, and that's why I was that vision ego thing sometimes when I'm thinking of something it's like just checking in with myself because sometimes I feel “don't get ahead of yourself. Do you think you could really do that?” I'm just trusting my strengths and my talents and that's what you did. You said this is what I can do.
Vince
It's all I had. All I could do is what I did. You know, it's funny, I heard somebody talk about creativity and art and they said, art is never finished, it's only abandoned. And that's a powerful statement. You know, you could be a painter and yeah, I could put some more red in there. Yeah, I could put another leaf on that tree. I could da-da-da-da-da-da. But at some point you gotta just kinda go, okay, that's about as good as I got right now. I have to let it go. And it's always been out of...The beautiful thing to realize, and it probably came way too late, but it was always out of my control. It was always out of my hands.
Tricia
What's it?
Vince
Whatever result of what I did was, of the art I created, it was out of my hands whether people would respond or wouldn't. I had nothing to do with it. And none of the notes changed on any of those records whether people bought them or didn't buy them. The work was done prior to me letting it go. It's like I said. It's just abandoned and that's what I do. I do the best I can and then I have to let it go.
Tricia
How many songs have you written, do you think?
Vince
I don't know. I have no clue.
Tricia
A lot.
Vince
Yeah I'd say probably a thousand or more.
Tricia
So how do you refill your well to keep that going?
Vince
Well, creativity is what I was meant to do, so it kind of comes natural. You know, melodies are always in my head. Thoughts are always in my head. Stories, I love telling stories, so I don't... There's nothing I enjoy more than sitting down with a blank piece of paper and see if I can tell a story that moves somebody.
Tricia
You've been pretty good at that so far.
Vince
Well, not bad, you know?
Tricia
So, okay, so one of the main, I mean, I've been wanting to have you on the show ever since I started it because of a conversation we had back in 2018. You had been asked to join the Eagles after Glenn Frey had died. I had met up with you and Amy in Boston, because y'all were playing at The Garden. And I said, So how is it playing with the Eagles? And you said to me, well, I'm not scared anymore. And I was like, what? I couldn't imagine someone of your station being scared. And it was so liberating to hear that you were still pushing yourself out of a comfort zone to where you would feel being scared. So I want you to talk about what that, that whole experience.
Vince
I think for me, some of my favorite work I've done is when I was uncomfortable. When I was out of my element just enough, you know, to put a little bit of pressure on you and put a little bit of heat on you. And there's several examples of that, that I did things because I worked at it that I didn't think I could do.
Tricia
Like what?
Vince
Like sing a song called Surf's Up. Beach Boys song.
Tricia
Yeah, tell me about that.
Vince
I got invited back in, think about 2000, 2001 to...to tribute to Brian Wilson and his music at Radio City Music Hall, think is where it was. Amy came, Corrina was a baby. And so when they called and asked if I would sing a couple songs, I said, yeah, what songs? And they said, Warmth of the Sun, which I knew. And I said, okay, yeah, I can do that. And said, and we also want you to sing Surf's Up. And I didn't know Surf's Up. I I love the Beach Boys, but I don't know all their records. And I said, okay, I was thinking Warmth of the Sun is a ballad, so the other one's a Surfing USA kind of song, everybody's surfing, surfing. And then I heard it and I went, I don't think it's humanly possible to sing that. And I called my manager Larry and I said, I'm not sure I can do this. He said, well, just sit with it for a little bit and try and...
Tricia
What about it made you think it wasn't humanly possible to sing it?
Vince
Because it’s so fricking hard. The way it was written, was like an orchestral piece, way out of my element. And I worked and I worked and I worked and I worked. And David Crosby was part of it and Jimmy Webb, great songwriter. The three of us were gonna do it and I had all the first parts of the song, which were the hard parts. And I had the guts to try, and it worked out and came off pretty good.
But yeah, you know, I remember a TV show with Sting I did where we were gonna sing each other songs and his music is complicated to me in a great way. I love what he does, but I thought it's a little bit over my head, you know, but as I dove into it and found my way into it with a little preparation, a little hard work, and I could find my way into it and make it make sense to me. And so anytime I got into a situation where I felt a little overwhelmed, I think it made me rise a little bit. It was cool. The best advice, I think some of the best advice I ever got as a young musician was don't ever be the best musician in the band because you'll never learn anything. So I've always tried to surround myself with people that are way better than me. And I do. I have and I still do to this day. So it's fun because when everybody else is probably a good bit better than you, you have to come up to them instead of play down to lesser talented people.
Tricia
What was it like the first time you got on stage singing Take It To The Limit?
Vince
I was terrified. To be honest, it's bizarre just in itself to stand in front of people and perform. It's not natural. I had a sports psychologist to me one time said, what you do couldn't be more abnormal.
Tricia
Why’d he say it?
Vince
He said, because all you ever hear is adulation. yeah. He said, that's really weird. So he encouraged me to beat myself up a little bit. He said, be hard on yourself because it's good for you. Help keep you level. And so I knew the apprehension that was, I could feel it. And we were playing Dodger Stadium 2017 and Randy was there. Randy Meisner who sang, Take It To The Limit. I could feel the crowd, just the tenseness of the people because here was somebody getting ready to sing the songs that Glenn had sung for 45 years, 50 years, whatever it's been. So I sang a verse and a chorus of it and everybody just kind of went phew, it's going to be okay. He can do it. And it's okay. I don't fault people for not being accepting of me being in the band. I knew it was coming. I knew there'd be a lot of naysayers. There still is, and there always will be and it's okay. I don't blame them. Somebody asked me about it and I said, hey, I don't want to hear me sing New Kid in Town either. The other option just isn't possible. So let's just grin and bear it and get through it.
Tricia
Okay, so here's my next question. Am I wrong in saying your favorite place to perform is the Ryman?
Vince
Live, yeah, I do like the vibe there a lot.
Tricia
So with the Eagles, you're currently performing at The Sphere, which could not be a more different experience.
Vince
It's, yeah, there's nothing – you can't compare it to anything because there's never been anything like it.
Tricia
Like, did you have to learn new technology? Did you have to learn a new way to deliver your music? Like, what did you have to learn skill-wise going from someplace like the Ryman to someplace like The Sphere?
Vince
Well, nothing really in the sense that all I'm doing is singing and playing. You know, that hasn't changed. The way it's formatted and the way it's done is very different. I have to wear in-ear monitors, which I've never worn and I don't like them.
Tricia
Why don't you like them?
Vince
Because they disconnect you from performing in front of an audience. In The Sphere, the thing there, it's a visual, you know, and music has never been visual to me. It's only about listening to it. So I jokingly tell people, it’s the most people I've ever been ignored by when I perform. They go, you arrogant, you know what. And I go, no, I'm just kidding. It's a joke, you know? But you can't help it. People are looking at the ceiling and they got their phones out and it's a spectacle like you can't describe to people because of the size of it and the magnitude of it. It's so much more massive than a screen behind a giant stage and a PA and all that that you normally see at a concert. So it's its own thing and it's unbelievable. People love it.
Tricia
Listen, I was just in our little cafe at our bookstore in Peterborough, New Hampshire, the Toadstool Bookstore, and the owner of the cafe there had just been to The Sphere and was just going on and on about what an amazing experience it was. But for you, what does it feel like? I mean, is it satisfying?
Vince
Yeah, you know, I mean it's a real gift to get to play and sing those songs. The Eagles songbook is untouchable, you know, and that's why they're them, because their songs were so great. And so, you know, I've had plenty of experience since playing with them of people not being about me being up there, so it's not a big deal. And none of that feels like that at The Sphere. It's just, you know going in that what they want to do is watch the show. It's Vegas. It's bigger than life. It's unlike anything they've ever seen, and the wow factor is through the roof. And you know that going in, so it doesn't bug you one bit.
Tricia
There is a, I mean, the intimacy, you know, your songs are so intimate. I mean, and the Eagles is a different thing. I'm thinking of Vince Gill and how you operate and the intimacy of your songs. But it just seems like such a huge transition like it would be so great and also overwhelming to be in that space.
Vince
Yeah, it winds up being the same thing. Nobody grows tired of a great singer singing a great song. That's what you're there for, to hear those songs that are familiar to you and they mean something to you. So yeah, all the bells and whistles make it even more fun. The most amazing thing there is there's 164,000 speakers in The Sphere. It’s kind of a 360 experience. It's more around you and all the speakers are behind you. So there's elements of – you can't have amps on stage. You can't because there's a latency issue by the time the sound transfers from what you do to the speakers and through to the crowd. It's later than you've played it. So it'd be impossible to play with if you didn't have ear monitors to shut off the live sound. It's a trip, but it's doable..
Tricia
I was going say that would mess with my head. I think it would mess with your head.
Vince
Yeah, it does. I don't watch the content because it makes me dizzy.
Tricia
That's what I've heard.
Vince
Yeah, there's some songs that can really mess with your equilibrium a little bit.
Tricia
So where do you look?
Vince
I look at the crowd.
Tricia
Another reason why I wanted to have you on the show is there's sometimes I imagine you – the crowd is going in one direction and you're going in another way just doing what you think is right. What back in 2003 when the Dixie Chicks got into a little bit of trouble saying what they did in London in March and the rest of the country music community was really ignoring them and canceling them and people were running over their CDs and there were two people who were sticking up for them and you were one of them. Talk to me a little bit about that experience. I know that you didn't necessarily agree with your viewpoint but you did agree with their right to say what they needed to say.
Vince
Yeah, I mean, and here's the thing, if you've never tried to win an audience, you know, a whole lot of that was them just trying to get an audience on their side, get them to, whatever. My point was, I've heard people in their own world, in the political world, say worse things about him than they did, and nothing happens to them. It just seemed like a grossly unfair, you know, to destroy their careers for saying something foolish, you know, and maybe their bravado made them wouldn't go ahead and take it back and say, okay, I made a mistake. Well, that doesn't, that's neither here nor there, but I just thought it didn't make any sense to, to completely take them out in a sense, you know, and here's what's, here's my favorite part of, what happened, you know. I'm a friend of that guy's. We were golfing buddies and they couldn't have been a better family. They're a great family. I knew Senior well and sang their anniversary and all kinds of stuff. Just great people. I never drew any lines politically with people. If you believe what you believe, I'm not going to dislike you or be against you or any of that. I'm not judgmental in that way. So years later, Natalie Maines’s father is a great musician and I was at a thing, a Hall of Fame thing for Austin City Limits and somebody was getting inducted and I was helping out and this was many years after what happened that happened. And he pulled me aside and he said, I need to talk to you about something. He said, you're about the only person that stuck up for my kid and as a father, I just want to say thank you.
Tricia
Oh my word, Vince. my word.
Vince
So, whatever grief I took from it, and I'm sure there was plenty. I didn't see it or didn't pay any attention to it. I operate under the theory I'm not gonna believe the good things they say about me or the bad things they say about me. I got a pretty good level path of how I treat people and how I carry on. So just hearing him say that as a father, as a fellow father, it was pretty powerful.
Tricia
It's a very courageous thing to do to just stay in your lane and say, I'm not following all these other people. And to just, and I think that's important to always give people. That's why I brought it up. We need examples of that all the time of saying, you know what? Some people need defending for, and you don't need to jump in with the rest of the other crew.
Vince
But it's not hard to defend somebody if you're not also saying out of the side of your mouth, you should feel like I do. I don't care if you do or not. But don't hate me because I have a different viewpoint than you do. But we've gotten to that point where, sadly, I got a song I wrote where it talks about, it's a song called The Whole World. Basically says it feels like the whole world's got a broken heart. We sure could use a brand new start. How the hell did we wind up so far apart? It's like the whole world's got a broken heart. In that song, there's a line that says, I'll never hate you if we disagree, because brother, you're breathing the same air as me. And that's how I feel about all these things. I'm not trying to pick a fight. I'm not trying to say you're wrong. I'm not trying do any of those things, I stick up for what I think is decent, what's fair, and kind.
Tricia
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Tricia
The other thing that you do though, is you inject an awful lot of empathy out there in the world, right? And so, I mean, your song, I mean, you're a great songwriter obviously, but there's so much empathy for other people in those songs. So, in your Oki album, you know, there's two songs, Forever Changed, which is around sexual abuse. And then there's...What Choice Will You Make about teen pregnancy. I mean, I listen to both those songs. I'm like, how does he, how is he channeling this? It's something. They're very, very powerful songs. I think though what's important about what, there's another reason why I wanted to have you on the show, is that you will address, not necessarily controversial, but you will address difficult topics in your songs that other people may stay away from. Not necessarily to have a judgment, you're right, you're wrong but to start a conversation.
Vince
Well, I think that it all stems from nobody likes to be preached at. Nobody likes to be told what to do, how to think, how to do it, or any of those things. Amy and I struggle with it too in life. Just don't tell me what to do.
Tricia
Yeah. Yes, I'm familiar with that too.
Vince
It's okay, you it's you know, you can have conversations like that if you're respectful and if you have grace and if you if you're not trying to just – with your only point being I want you to feel like I do. Everybody everybody likes being around like-minded people. Yeah, you know, it's secure.
Tricia
Everybody's in an echo chamber.
Vince
Yeah kind of and once again that song you mentioned about, you know, What Choice Will You Make about a young girl that gets pregnant. And the song is basically what choice will you make. And the beauty of the song is it never chooses. It never picks a side. It never tells you what you should do, what you shouldn't do. And it doesn't preach at you. And the girl I wrote that with, Leslie Satcher, is a very big time believer, you know, and very pro-life and all that. And so it was interesting kind of in writing that song with having to hold her back just a hair, you know? And go, hey, let's not make this about what we think should happen. Let's just paint the scenario and not have to answer the question.
Tricia
And again, like most, a lot of your songs, it's very cinematic. And so when you're listening to it, you can picture this young woman and you can see what she's going on. And the lyric is what choice will make, what choice will make whose heart will you break, whatever you choose, you'll wear on your face. YOu know, I just, it just about – makes me tear up just thinking about it.
Vince
Granny said if your eyes leak your head won't swell.
Tricia
Anyway, and I think that's one of the things that good stories can do as a storyteller, good songwriters can do. I think they give us vessels. It's like, Go Rest High on That Mountain is a vessel for everybody's grief, right? You're sort of giving as a gift to say, to process things and process how we feel about things.
Vince
Yeah, and that song is really not a sad song. It's a celebratory song. It's a song of hope, you know, and that's kind of where it came from for me. I'm not the biggest church guy in the world.
Tricia
So I've heard.
Vince
Amy married me. Everybody thinks I'm, you know, like Amy is and I'm not. You know, didn't go to church much as a kid. And I feel it's all up for discussion. Until you know, you don't know. But yeah, most people hear Go Rest High on that Mountain, because of the way it's treated musically, it sounds melancholy and it sounds sad. And it is, it's about a sad subject, but the hopefulness in it and the joy in it is really there, if you listen to the words.
Tricia
Yeah. Is it hard? I mean, I got raised my whole life. You're too sensitive. You're too whatever. Which happens to be why I'm good at what I do. I am sensitive. But when I was growing up, it was not really the thing that people necessarily were celebrating. And it's hard for me sometimes to be this sensitive because there's so much to take in that's hard. Is it hard for you to navigate? Because you're such a sensitive, empathetic, vulnerable person that comes through your work. Is it hard to navigate? Do you know what I'm saying? To be as sensitive as you are?
Vince
Well, it's it's, you know. I guess sometimes you find it's hard to be honest, you know, because people will persecute you for it. People will tear you down and, but I don't mind it. You know, what I'm drawn to musically is the melancholy of it. You know, I want to be moved by music. I don't want to be impressed by it. I don't care how many notes you can sing. I don't care how many shredding guitar playing notes you can play, I want to be moved by music. And that's what I go to music for. It's like therapy. When I go through a struggle of losing my father, losing my brother, or going through a divorce or what have you, I go to music. And that's where my therapy is.
Tricia
Do you go to music to write it or listen to it?
Vince
Both, but more to write it. You know, I think that there are songs that compel me that other people do, obviously. I would have never learned to do this had it not been for a whole lot of inspiration of getting to hear great music, great singers, great musicians and all that great songs. So.
Tricia
How long does it take, I don't even know if this is an answerable question, I was just watching on, when the California fires were happening, and I can't remember the comedian's name, but he was on Jimmy Fallon, and the night before his house had burned down, and he was already processing it through humor and writing jokes about it. How long does it take for you to have something happen and then you start writing a song about it? is there a..Is it an instantaneous thing? Is it a couple of weeks? How long does it take for you to begin to turn it into music?
Vince
I don't know if there's an answer to that. You just sit down and you play and you sing and you find a melody and what do you want to talk about, what do want to write about. I think that creativity is always spinning in my head. And I like, I love comedy. I love laughing at everything. And sometimes it's inappropriate.
Tricia
It's a release.
Vince
But it's like, come on, man, you can't draw a line and say, okay, you can't go past that because that's not funny. Well, yeah, if you can find something funny in it, it's fair game. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah.
Tricia
Okay, so last night I got a sneak listen to a couple of songs that you've written, but one I feel like is an anthem. I was about to walk out the door at 11 o'clock at night and start marching. Can you talk a little bit about this new song, March On? Can you talk a little bit?
Vince
It's um, the song's called March On, March On and it's all it really is is just kind of trying to be empathetic about the struggle that's gone on for in our country for eons, you know, and whenever you bring that up and people that don't feel like you do they can point out A, B, C, D, Y, blah blah.
Tricia
And we're talking about racial equality.
Vince
You know, I grew up in a time when I started in seventh grade, we started integrating the schools. And the truth was the kids never had a problem. Which was kind of beautiful to discover and figure out. And I don't think the kids of today have a problem. Just hanging on to all these old ways, you know, that I don't know how it makes any sense, you know, that's all. I'm not begrudging anybody that doesn't want to feel that way. It's fine, you know, but until, you know, what do they say? Never criticize a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. Then you're a mile away and you have his shoes.
Tricia
But let me, what's your hope for that song? What's your hope for that? I mean, I literally for me heard it one time and like, okay, I'm, you know, it was a very moving and motivating song. So what's your hope for that song?
Vince
Well, I don't know. I don't have a goal for it. I just love doing the work. And I've learned through my lifetime that whatever happens, I have no control over. So I just hope people understand it's not a knock on anybody. It's not. It's just the truth. I think the truth is the most compelling thing that there is on earth.
Tricia
Yes.
Vince
And if you could find your way to it without feeling like you're being scolded or you're, you so I think there's so many white people that think, you know, I didn't do it. And that's the standard answer. I didn't have anything to with it. What you mad at me for? Well I'm not mad at you. Just saying this is, this is real and just have some sympathy for it. You know, maybe a little bit of, a little bit of heart for it, you know,
Tricia
But that's a brave stance to take, Vince Gill. It's not like everybody's out there saying right now, be empathetic, try to understand. There's not a lot of voices saying that. So that's an important thing to be saying.
Vince
And that, know, once again, it's, you know, I can't, and for you to think you can control how somebody thinks is foolish, you know? But it's a powerful song. And I remember there was a thing that was going on here in town with this young kid, Morgan Wallen, who's blown up as a huge star in country music. And he used some language he probably regrets and they caught him doing it and put it out there and tried to cancel him and did a bunch of things. And I was doing an interview with CBS This Morning and they asked me about it. And I said, man, I don't even know the kid, you know? So I'm not gonna jump on and bury him and be like that. I said, here's how I feel about it. And I played him the song. And when it aired, the first person I heard from was Keb Mo, blues singer, my friend. And he just said, thank you. The text just said, thank you. I asked some friends that are black, I said, am I way off base here? And every one of them said, no, you couldn't have told the truth any better and any kinder. I think that if you approach some of these subjects with a decency and a kindness about it that's not
Tricia
Finger wagging.
Vince
shaming, nobody likes to feel like they're being shamed, ever. They care who you are, what you are, any of that. And so that's all I'm trying, I just, that's my...there's a great songwriter in our history named Tom T. Hall. He wrote a lot of great songs. And he made a statement that I thought was so profound. And they asked him about your perspective of writing songs. He goes, I'm just an observer. I'm writing from a place of observance. And I think I do too. Once again, if everybody wants to hold my feet to the fire and disagree and think I'm this and that, that's their prerogative. I'm still gonna sleep tonight when I lay down. I feel that way, so I'm good.
Tricia
We always say it's not about you, it's about the message. So the message that you're sending out is a really powerful one.
Vince
Well, know, kindness would solve every problem we have.
Tricia
Thanks for being a beacon for that. Okay, I have a couple more questions I want to ask you. Real quick, when do we get to hear March On? How long do we have to wait?
Vince
I don’t know. I've got a bunch of new music I'm working on. probably get rolled out over the next year. Okay.
Tricia
We'll just keep us posted. You obviously have a high profile personality. I mean, you're out there.
Vince
Used to.
Tricia
Well, it's still there. I think I just saw you on TV the other night, if I'm not mistaken, celebrating 100 years of the Grand Ole Opry. I know you're very involved in the Country Music Hall of Fame. I want you to talk about that devotion and dedication to something like the Country Music Hall of Fame and keeping and what I mean I know you're very involved in All for the Hall which raises money for the educational fund and you know just is it Words and Music is that the program that is also kept alive by that?
Vince
It's everything. Everything that has to do with the Country Music Hall of Fame.
Tricia
And so, you know, the rest of us may not have as big as a platform as you have, but we all have the ability to move the needle a bit in our world by giving back. And so I want to talk a little bit about that, how it matters to give back to organizations like that or causes like that, that even, and how that serves you as an artist.
Vince
Well, it's simple. I have a great reverence of what came before me and a great respect of the reason I get to do what I do is because of the shoulders of the ones that came before me. I'm standing on them. They helped me. They were supportive of me, encouraged me, taught me, all those things. And it'd be real easy to go, hey, I'm killing it. I can get the big head. I'm pretty untouchable now. You can't do this alone. It takes a village, they say, and it's true. So that reverence that I have for the past is really important. I look back to those infant years of learning these songs and my father teaching me songs and my mom playing the harmonica and my grandma playing the piano. And it's just etched so deep in my world that I can't be any other way. You know, I have my heroes. You know, we all do, regardless of what it is you do. Some of them are baseball players, some of them are golfers, some of them are musicians, some of them are songwriters, and it's singers, it's all kinds of things.
Tricia
Well, I mean, I think that's one of the things we're trying to do on this show. I'm trying to is just put people in front of the community to say, here's somebody, here's a blueprint for how to be courageous and creative at the same time. And just because we can't do this alone, we have to do it in community. And we need people to build us up as we go along. What do you have coming up next? I know you're touring all summer. You're going to be in Boston on May 17th. I'm going to try to be in the crowd. I am.
Vince
I'll wave to you.
Tricia
Thank you. I wish you could recognize me. I'll be in the front row. Vince. But what are you doing this summer? You're touring all summer?
Vince
Yeah, I'm gonna go out for I think 35 dates with my band and you know, I've been touring with the Eagles for the last eight or nine years and with giving them the majority of my time, I haven't been able to do much of my own career and my own creative 40 plus years of doing this, you know, as a solo artist. So I miss singing those songs. It's that simple. I don't have to work this summer and I decided I'd go out and knock around a bit.
Tricia
We look forward to you knocking around. Here's the question I ask everybody. What do you need courage for right now?
Vince
Oh gosh, what do I need courage for right now? You know, I think courage and being an idiot are really, really, really close to each other.
Tricia
Okay, so what do need to be an idiot for right now?
Vince
Not much. Evidently I'm really good at it. You know I just I love living in the moment. I guess if I had and I have plenty, it seems like I have courage for that. So if I had to always be hopeful that I had the willingness to not look too far into the past or into the future I mean and back to the past that those things are nothing you can do about either one of those. So I live totally in the moment. I don't plan anything and I'm not afraid of much.
Tricia
Vince, thank you so much.
Vince
I don’t like flying so much.
Tricia
You don’t like flying?
Vince
I hate flying and I wish I had more courage when I fly. I talk like a sailor when I'm flying and there's a little bump and all that.
Tricia
They have pills for that. You know you can medicate yourself.
Vince
I don't do any that kind of medication stuff. I never even smoked any dope. I'm the only musician I know.
Tricia
Really? You never smoked any dope?
Vince
Never took any drugs. Straight laced.
Tricia
Yeah, I'm not. I'm just too much of a control freak.
Vince
I was too afraid of my father. He's been dead for 28 years. I'm still scared. He'll come down from the clouds and get me.
Tricia
I know that feeling. Vince, thank you so much for being on the show. I'm so delighted to be here. Thank you.
Vince
Bye.
Tricia
Vince serves as a role model not only for courage and devotion to one's craft, but also humility and kindness. And he got me asking some questions.
When it comes to your creativity, are you doing the sure thing or the right thing?
How are you judging your success?
Are you pushing yourself out of your element?
And finally, who are the folks in your village helping you make your work?
While we wait for Vince's new music to be released, check out his performance of his song, March On. You can find his performance from CBS Mornings on YouTube or in the episode, Show Notes. We'll have that clip and several more, including Go Rest High on That Mountain with Patti Loveless and Every Breath You Take with Sting. Find out more about Vince and check out his tour schedule at vincegill.com.
If you have the chance to see him perform live, you do not want to miss it. And if you want a really special treat, go see him at the Ryman in Nashville this August. Vince and Amy's daughter, Corrina, will be his opening act. And believe me, that apple does not fall far from the tree.
Tricia
Thanks for joining us. If you have any questions, feel free to reach out to us at podcast@triciaroseburt.com. And if you liked this episode, please share it with one other person that you think will enjoy it. Then maybe talk to them about the parts that resonate. It really helps build our audience. And remember, this is no time to be timid.
No Time to Be Timid is written and produced by me, Tricia Rose Burt. Our episodes are produced and scored by Adam Arnone of Echo Finch. And our executive producers are Amy Grant, Nancy Perot, and Sage Wheeler. I'd also like to thank contributors to my Fractured Atlas Fiscal Sponsorship, which helps make this podcast happen. No Time to Be Timid is a presentation of I Will Be Good Productions.
You can change yourself and change the world. It's no time to be timid if you haven't heard. You can find what's true, that's what you deserve. It's no time to be timid if you haven't heard. Let’s go!